Oh heck. Assassins. (Mesmer thread.)

[Francis Demeules]

Originally Posted by LightningHell

OMG HAX!

Sound like a Wammo



The last I got called HAX! (except you hell now) in GW was when I tried the condition Spreader with R/Me. It just so funny to see the Wammo called "HAXER!" just by poison and cripple.

[Siren]

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Sorry, but I have to burst it out. These past few days have been really funny with this in the back of my head.

Holy shit do you think Mesmers are underused in PvP?

No, but underuse in PvP was never my point (who in their right mind would argue that Mes is underused in PvP anyway?). Think back to before GW Chapter 1 retail. Think back to when everyone first started. Barely anyone knew the power of a Mesmer, or the potential. The overall perception of Mesmers was "Meh." And yet what happened? When the good Mes players started dominating certain areas of the game, the overall perception of Mesmers changed. Just like Necros, Rangers, etc.

Same principle here with the overall perception of Assassins.

Nice try playing spin-doctor, mate, but it didn't work. lol

[LightningHell]

Siren, this is an entirely different time; it's not an entirely new game, we are completely familiar with the concepts, we know what is the definition of a good skill and a bad one, there are actual existing professions instead of just brand new ones, etc.

Oh, and I wouldn't know. I played an Elementalist/Necro. (And I hated the Necro part of it.)

[Elaine Donnerbalken]

on the question of edraining Assassins: IF they attack someone using zealous upgrades (critical strikes 10) they have an energy regeneration of about 8 pips.

That probably is enough for the assassin to maintain his combos, as long as he is drained by the common HA-drainer.

But it's true, spirit shackles really hurts. Double Strikes will hurt twice, and the energy through criticals cant compensate the energy loss.

So yes, an anti-melee mesmer will win against an assassin most of the time. But as we all know, GW is a team game. And as soon as its PvP, you need your team. I don't think that this 1on1 discussion really makes sense, this is not "counter this skill".

We know that the assassin will have a monk in his backline removing the blindness caused by Ineptitude. We also know that the dazed condition on the mesmer will be removed by his monk. So the real question is:

"Oh heck.Assassins with monks in the backline" What do we do?

(mhwahaha, Assassin out of danger^^)

[Francis Demeules]

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

"Oh heck.Assassins with monks in the backline" What do we do?

Inspired Enchantment?
You got me an idea Elaine. Just thinking (and working at my job at the same time (during my pause or when I will come home) and I will come for futur update. This gonna be fun .

[Siren]

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Siren, this is an entirely different time; it's not an entirely new game, we are completely familiar with the concepts, we know what is the definition of a good skill and a bad one, there are actual existing professions instead of just brand new ones, etc.

On the contrary, Lightning. For all intents and purposes, the Assassin game is an entirely new game. It's a brand-new profession, just like pre-launch of Chapter 1. Any time that people have to learn a new profession, it's a new learning experience, and with that new learning experience, you see the same exact kinds of social reactions. There are the lovers and the haters. The lovers and the haters are nothing new. The social reactions are nothing new. It happens all the time, whenever anything new is introduced. And it's especially obvious with new professions...regardless of whether the game itself has been out two years, or two months.

I mean, consider the crap that Mesmers had to put up with early on (hell, sometimes they still have to put up with that crap). Consider how so many people considered them almost completely irrelevant. Then what happened? People started using them. Their strengths and assets to a team became readily apparent.

Then suddenly a girly-looking profession with non-intuitive skill sets became one of the most desirable professions for any team in PvP.

How many early Mesmer builds, for example, depended on Backfire? Back during launch, Backfire was amazing to most people. But it's truly one of the more lackluster Domination skills. It's effective in some builds, sure, but if the Mesmer is looking to completely prevent a caster from casting--a Monk for example--then a combination of Diversion, Shame, possibly WW, etc, with Backfire as a supplement, will be more useful.

Back during launch, however, did we see Shame being used much at all? No. We didn't. That's because Backfire basically stole the spot-light. lol. Why is that? Because Backfire's effect was pretty obvious. But as time went on, people's perceptions of Mesmers changed, because there were suddenly all of these new options available. Skills that nobody paid attention to initially were suddenly integral parts of a Mesmer CasterHate build and gasp! Suddenly far fewer people were bashing Mesmers for the wrong reasons...and more people started bashing them for the right reasons ("OMG Mesmer you bastard!" for example)

We all saw that. We all saw that exact progression.

So why deny it'll be any different for Assassin? What makes Assassin the exception to that rule? What makes you think they'll always suck?

Because people have had combat experience with other, different, almost unrelated professions, so they know which Assassin skills are/will be good and bad?

On the contrary. Some people in this very thread have proven that theory completely wrong. Some here have been spouting off how useless certain skills are/will be and yet are talking out of their ass, lol. Some here have no idea what the primary attribute for Assassins is actually used for. Some here don't see the use in something like Scorpion Wire, just writing it off as lame and undeserving a second-glance. Some have already written-off Assassins as just minor annoyances when they haven't even taken the time to learn the profession.

That is the same exact mentality we saw 1-2 years ago when people first saw Mesmers, Necros, and Rangers. You said it yourself: you hated Necro. If you still hate Necro, that's too bad. But at least you do recognize their importance, right? And it doesn't seem like you're saying (or implying) they're useless. Why is that? Because you've at least seen what they can do when they're played by experienced players.

Do you honestly believe that won't happen with Assassins (or Ritualists)? That they'll be an inferior profession the entire time, because the inexperienced and the haters don't think they're worth anything? Once people start figuring out how to squeeze out more of the Assassin potential (though they already have started), suddenly a queer-looking profession with non-intuitive skill sets will become one of the most desirable professions for any team in PvP. Hell, I think it's entirely possible to see a CasterHate duo of a Me/X and A/X in the near future, if not just two Assassins. ~_^

To summarize:

Just like Mesmers from a year or so ago, the only appropriate judges of the potential of Assassins will be experienced Assassin players. Nobody else. Not Monks who try to use Guardian. Not Warriors who can't even get in range. Not Rangers who can barely hit them. And certainly not a handful of Mesmers with zero experience playing Assassin.

It's just the way things go.

If the uneducated and uncultured were the only ones determining which professions are useful, we probably wouldn't even see Mesmers and Necros in PvP ever. And that's a truth that cannot be denied. lol

[Hella Good]

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

"Oh heck.Assassins with monks in the backline" What do we do?

Why of course shut down the monk in about 10secs and divert your attention to your next victim.

[SnipiousMax]

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Why of course shut down the monk in about 10secs and divert your attention to your next victim.

Course you are saving a Sig of Midnight/Ineptitude for the assassin should he charge in those 10 secs right?

[Hella Good]

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Course you are saving a Sig of Midnight/Ineptitude for the assassin should he charge in those 10 secs right?

I think Shackwrack if I'm running e-denial. Gogogo double strikes!!!

[Francis Demeules]

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I think Shackwrack if I'm running e-denial. Gogogo double strikes!!!

Well, for me, I try to get out of the routine. E-Denial, IW, Inept and those which I haven't named it and stay popular, are off fora while. I will try something else.

Anyway, I'm not here for that. Well, Like I said before, about Inspred enchantment, Its a another I found for self-defense but they must have this Elite on them. The Elite Aura of Displacement.... is a very funny skill. If you think what I see with Inspired Enchantment, this could be a fun play.

[LightningHell]

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

this could be a fun play.

Agreed.

But I mildly disagree on that all Warrior killers will be Assassin killers. IMO, Assassins would have to be dealt with as half-W-half-R. As they can teleport from range, but still have to come into melee to fight. Didn't really word that well, so whatever.

[Siren]

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

The Elite Aura of Displacement.... is a very funny skill. If you think what I see with Inspired Enchantment, this could be a fun play.

I see where you're going with it. It's an unlinked skill, which means you can inspire it off and use it without penalty. Which then gives you some nifty teleportation, eh? BUT, you do need to be careful with it. I'd advise any Me/X or X/Me to make sure you're something of a combat class--or at least tailored to withstand damage. Because even though having a maintained warp point somewhere on the battlefield sounds nice, you also have to teleport to a target foe when first casting AoD. Just choose your target carefully. And also keep in mind your own Aura of Displacement can get removed, which sends you zipping back.

It's one of the newer philosophies/approaches I was talking about earlier. How enchant removal isn't only for debuffs anymore. You can use enchant removal to counter Shadow Stepping. Ending something like AoD or even Recall pre-emptively will be one of the required new tactics/counters to Assassins. It's why traditional Inept and WarHate won't cover everything...those will actually only cover a small portion.

Like your portfolios, your counters and philosophies behind them have to get diversified.

[SnipiousMax]

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Well, for me, I try to get out of the routine. E-Denial, IW, Inept and those which I haven't named it and stay popular, are off fora while. I will try something else.

Anyway, I'm not here for that. Well, Like I said before, about Inspred enchantment, Its a another I found for self-defense but they must have this Elite on them. The Elite Aura of Displacement.... is a very funny skill. If you think what I see with Inspired Enchantment, this could be a fun play.

I looked back through the Assassin skills, and Inspired/Drain Enchantment will work against assassin's like it never did against warriors. They've got a fair mixing of Stances and enchants, and a few of those enchants would be key to specific builds. So it's just gonna be a matter of watching.

So Inspired Enchant + Sig of Humility would leave the assassin to ponder another attack, but not helpless. Unless their elite was a lead attack! I think I like that combo, not that it's the end all.

[Francis Demeules]

You see, if you're setting your build for a defense situation, you can survive easily against everything. While you stay alive, this gives a good amount of time for your group to kill the other one.

[Hella Good]

Yes, but should Mesmers go all defense just because there is an Assa on the enemy team? I certainly don't think so. I hold the position that at most one skill can be fit into a Mesmer build to help cope with a specific "new" threat. What that specific threat might be and which skill will be used is open to discussion but bottom line is: Mesmers aren't going to go all defense or go all anti-Assa. That is just not going to happen.

It's more like thinking in terms of which of the old or new skills we will be using anyway can we utilize versus Assas.

[Francis Demeules]

Off course I dont full up my bar skills for only self defense. I take some Attacks skills too with it. One thing is certain, all players who had message me during that night about their build because of assassins are really, really good. I keep them in silence for the surprise. Sorry for those who want to know the builds but I make a promise to do not to tell. I continue for those who want to talk this personally about assassins and mesmer.

[Hella Good]

You know we can also Arcane Thievery/Larceny them. That would be funny, if you take a key attack in their attack sequence. Much like Diversion, I guess. Plus both can be used on a wide range of targets, including Monks and other spell-casters.

[Francis Demeules]

Just hope to get the right or do Echo Thievery for more stealing